I wonder what effect Christians actions have on the salvation of others.
I'm sure there are a good number of people who choose not to follow Christ because of me, and you, and every other Christian who has been... and all that has been done in the name of God.
I really like in Blue Like Jazz how Donald Miller and his friends at Reed set up a confessional and say sorry for wrecking it, for misrepresenting Jesus to everyone else. I wish that I could have been there... I wish that I could do that now.
At my last job I had a supervisor who was gay. I liked him, he was funny and we got along well. In the time I worked with him, I never once mentioned I was a Christian. I wanted him to see me for me, not like those he has undoubtedly encountered in the past. I wanted him to know I liked him for him, not in a "love the sinner, hate the sin" kind of way... but in a way people should like each other.
My mother is another prime example. She got pregnant before her and my dad were married, and had a Christian friend who refused to talk to her. She later had a miscarriage. I can only imagine what she thought about God then... if I was her, I would think that God was probably angry at me, that perhaps this lady represented what God thought, and perhaps losing the baby was punishment.
I'd hate to think who I've hurt and pushed away by feeling all righteous and judgmental. And I wonder how God will deal with that when we die. Is He going to send people to hell because they failed to choose the "right team"... and the only reason they didn't do so was because we didn't accept them.
If (and I say if, because I'm not sure about all this heaven/hell stuff) someones eternal place is dictated by whether or not they chose to follow Jesus... what consequence will we have for pushing them away and representing Jesus as someone he isn't? What if it's my fault?
Monday, October 29, 2007
Tuesday, October 2, 2007
Hell
Back in the days of being a young Christian... when I was probably around 13 or 14, I was having a conversation with a friends mother. What she said has stuck with me since then, because at the time it was crushing. We were talking about my family's beliefs, and she said to me, "sometimes we just have to accept that some in our family are going to go to hell".
I've thought more about this recently with the loss of my grandmother 2 months ago. She was a wonderful woman whom I miss dearly. She was a catholic who went to mass at Christmas and maybe Easter, fostered children and volunteered at an op shop. This year, she even looked after her mother who was unwell, (and died a couple of months before nana) even though she was sick as well. Even though my nana considered herself a catholic and saved, even though she would have firmly believed she was going to heaven, there would be many Christians who would say she is in hell or on her way there.
I don't really know that much about what the Bible says about hell... but according to what my friends mother believed and told me when I was younger, my grandmother is somewhere suffering for all of eternity... and I just have to accept it as something that happens. I cant believe that, because grief is bad enough without thinking that instead of being at peace and out of pain, my nana is suffering at the hands of satan because she wasn't really following God, even though she believed she was. I can't believe that. It's all very well for someone who comes from a Christian family to think that because they don't really have to face the reality. But according to their beliefs, I'm destined to spend eternity with God, and everyone else from my family whom I love very much will spend eternity away from me and anything even the slightest bit good.
Its interesting that people will never even hint at any of this when someone actually dies. If its a Christian, people will talk about how they've gone home to be with their Saviour... but if they weren't considered to be a Christian, nobody will say anything about where they might be.
I will be doing more research on this... I'd like to know what the Bible says about it... and in the meantime I pray wherever my nana is now, it's better than what it was for her on earth these last couple of years.
I've thought more about this recently with the loss of my grandmother 2 months ago. She was a wonderful woman whom I miss dearly. She was a catholic who went to mass at Christmas and maybe Easter, fostered children and volunteered at an op shop. This year, she even looked after her mother who was unwell, (and died a couple of months before nana) even though she was sick as well. Even though my nana considered herself a catholic and saved, even though she would have firmly believed she was going to heaven, there would be many Christians who would say she is in hell or on her way there.
I don't really know that much about what the Bible says about hell... but according to what my friends mother believed and told me when I was younger, my grandmother is somewhere suffering for all of eternity... and I just have to accept it as something that happens. I cant believe that, because grief is bad enough without thinking that instead of being at peace and out of pain, my nana is suffering at the hands of satan because she wasn't really following God, even though she believed she was. I can't believe that. It's all very well for someone who comes from a Christian family to think that because they don't really have to face the reality. But according to their beliefs, I'm destined to spend eternity with God, and everyone else from my family whom I love very much will spend eternity away from me and anything even the slightest bit good.
Its interesting that people will never even hint at any of this when someone actually dies. If its a Christian, people will talk about how they've gone home to be with their Saviour... but if they weren't considered to be a Christian, nobody will say anything about where they might be.
I will be doing more research on this... I'd like to know what the Bible says about it... and in the meantime I pray wherever my nana is now, it's better than what it was for her on earth these last couple of years.
Monday, October 1, 2007
I was happier before I went to Bible College
I have a lot of time to think. Both of my flatmates are away, and when i find myself alone for long periods, I tend to start thinking aloud. The more I hear my own thoughts, the more they expand.
Recently I've been thinking about a session I attended at a conference at a big church in the city. I went to this particular conference last year and didn't enjoy it, so I had low expectations to begin with. The only reason I went along was to see my pastors from hastings.
I could never be comfortable attending a big church. Especially a church with so many lights flashing you leave with a headache... and 5 projectors, numerous video cameras, flat screen TVs, and various other technical gear to rival Harvey Norman. The whole time they were singing (their own songs that no-one knew, with 2 members of probably NZs most well known worship band), I couldnt help but wonder how many people they could have fed or medicated.
This particular session was about dreams/dreamer... and I noticed that the visiting speaker from a well known church in Australia, (which he didnt fail in informing us may be the fastest growing church in Australian history) managed to use what the Bible says about Josephs dreams and somehow paired it with... goals.
And when we're not listening to how many people attended a certain event, and how many were saved, and that a particular church has grown from 74 to 1874 people in 2 years (for example)... we're listening to the people talk about how great the movement is, about other denominations dropping the ball when it gets hard, but not this one!!!! *amens and cheers from the crowd* That God has chosen this movement to somehow save NZ... which I'm sure sounds good over the few days of the conference.
The thing that most stands out for me about this conference actually occured last year. An important leader was going up the front, and we were all told to give him a "prophetic clap"!
And how does this tie in with bible college? Before bible college, I was oblivious. I attended church, camps, conferences, etc. and I agreed with everything that sounded good to me. God was whoever He was made out to be and I accepted it. Bible college ruined that, and yet I still wouldn't change it for the world. I started to take notice of what I was hearing, and comparing it to what I was learning... and it didn't always add up. I don't claim to know everything, or even anything... but I do know that I cant attend a church that puts so much value on numbers, on "winning" people (is that the best term you can come up with!!???), on having a great worship band with lights and cameras and jumping, and singing about giving Jesus a big shout. That may be for some people, but its certainly not for me.
Recently I've been thinking about a session I attended at a conference at a big church in the city. I went to this particular conference last year and didn't enjoy it, so I had low expectations to begin with. The only reason I went along was to see my pastors from hastings.
I could never be comfortable attending a big church. Especially a church with so many lights flashing you leave with a headache... and 5 projectors, numerous video cameras, flat screen TVs, and various other technical gear to rival Harvey Norman. The whole time they were singing (their own songs that no-one knew, with 2 members of probably NZs most well known worship band), I couldnt help but wonder how many people they could have fed or medicated.
This particular session was about dreams/dreamer... and I noticed that the visiting speaker from a well known church in Australia, (which he didnt fail in informing us may be the fastest growing church in Australian history) managed to use what the Bible says about Josephs dreams and somehow paired it with... goals.
And when we're not listening to how many people attended a certain event, and how many were saved, and that a particular church has grown from 74 to 1874 people in 2 years (for example)... we're listening to the people talk about how great the movement is, about other denominations dropping the ball when it gets hard, but not this one!!!! *amens and cheers from the crowd* That God has chosen this movement to somehow save NZ... which I'm sure sounds good over the few days of the conference.
The thing that most stands out for me about this conference actually occured last year. An important leader was going up the front, and we were all told to give him a "prophetic clap"!
And how does this tie in with bible college? Before bible college, I was oblivious. I attended church, camps, conferences, etc. and I agreed with everything that sounded good to me. God was whoever He was made out to be and I accepted it. Bible college ruined that, and yet I still wouldn't change it for the world. I started to take notice of what I was hearing, and comparing it to what I was learning... and it didn't always add up. I don't claim to know everything, or even anything... but I do know that I cant attend a church that puts so much value on numbers, on "winning" people (is that the best term you can come up with!!???), on having a great worship band with lights and cameras and jumping, and singing about giving Jesus a big shout. That may be for some people, but its certainly not for me.
Sunday, September 30, 2007
The Beginning
I've started this blog without much thought... I just decided to do it, and did.
I recently deleted my old blog which I hadn't used for months, but this one is to be different... this is less about friends reading my thoughts and what's going on in my life, and more (I'm hoping) sharing my spiritual growth (or maybe more accurately, struggle), and what I discover along my journey.
This title of this blog, "Fifty-three Years in Space" is he subtitle for the chapter "Alone" in the book Blue Like Jazz, by Donald Miller. I choose this for a couple of reasons. One being that the book is right beside me, and at 1.14am on Monday morning, I'm feeling less than creative. Also, that particular chapter is where I find myself at the moment.
I have been living in Auckland now for a week, so obviously, I know next to no-one. The main part of me identifying with 'Alone' though, is that I'm lacking on the church front. I haven't really been to church in at least 3 months, and of course, my separation with it started long before. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with the church I went to... but I would have fitted better if I was 35, married, with a couple of kids. I really didn't have any close friends there, and those my age weren't really interested in God at all. More than that though, I'm feeling a separation from church in general. I feel quite let down and disillusioned with the whole thing. Alot of this has been building momentum for a while... and was just added to recently when I experienced the loss of a family member... and the only support I received from the people in the church I have been attending for the past 6 years or so, where I have run the youth ministry for a year, was from the pastors. I cannot really see how I could be involved in a church that when a crisis arose, I could count on 2 fingers those who actually asked how I was. If I can be involved in a church my whole Christian life and experience this, I'm unsure how it could be different elsewhere.
Its not that I was craving sympathy and attention. What I've really been craving this whole time is community. Community with people who actually want to seek God. I want to be in a cell group where the leader doesn't question (and rightfully so!) if theres a point in even having it. I want to go to church and sit with people who aren't listening to ipods and playing PSP, but are actually part of the gathering.
I do wonder if I will ever find a church community. I was sitting home a couple of weeks back talking to a friend of mine who was skipping church. Both her flatmates were home skipping church... another of her friends was home skipping church (and there were a few more we could both think of off the top of our heads). What is so wrong that so many of us of a similar age had no desire to be at a church? Whats missing here? IS there really so few real communities out there where people fit... where I will fit?
Anyway, now you know how I got to this point. I'm unsure where to go from here. Do i check out churches even though my hearts not really in it? If so, where do I start? Or do I continue being a churchless Christian for the time being?
*Please note, my blog wont look like this forever... I know its ugly :) Also, if you read this, I hope you watch for my next post, which may or may not be entitled 'I was happier before I went to Bible College'
I recently deleted my old blog which I hadn't used for months, but this one is to be different... this is less about friends reading my thoughts and what's going on in my life, and more (I'm hoping) sharing my spiritual growth (or maybe more accurately, struggle), and what I discover along my journey.
This title of this blog, "Fifty-three Years in Space" is he subtitle for the chapter "Alone" in the book Blue Like Jazz, by Donald Miller. I choose this for a couple of reasons. One being that the book is right beside me, and at 1.14am on Monday morning, I'm feeling less than creative. Also, that particular chapter is where I find myself at the moment.
I have been living in Auckland now for a week, so obviously, I know next to no-one. The main part of me identifying with 'Alone' though, is that I'm lacking on the church front. I haven't really been to church in at least 3 months, and of course, my separation with it started long before. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with the church I went to... but I would have fitted better if I was 35, married, with a couple of kids. I really didn't have any close friends there, and those my age weren't really interested in God at all. More than that though, I'm feeling a separation from church in general. I feel quite let down and disillusioned with the whole thing. Alot of this has been building momentum for a while... and was just added to recently when I experienced the loss of a family member... and the only support I received from the people in the church I have been attending for the past 6 years or so, where I have run the youth ministry for a year, was from the pastors. I cannot really see how I could be involved in a church that when a crisis arose, I could count on 2 fingers those who actually asked how I was. If I can be involved in a church my whole Christian life and experience this, I'm unsure how it could be different elsewhere.
Its not that I was craving sympathy and attention. What I've really been craving this whole time is community. Community with people who actually want to seek God. I want to be in a cell group where the leader doesn't question (and rightfully so!) if theres a point in even having it. I want to go to church and sit with people who aren't listening to ipods and playing PSP, but are actually part of the gathering.
I do wonder if I will ever find a church community. I was sitting home a couple of weeks back talking to a friend of mine who was skipping church. Both her flatmates were home skipping church... another of her friends was home skipping church (and there were a few more we could both think of off the top of our heads). What is so wrong that so many of us of a similar age had no desire to be at a church? Whats missing here? IS there really so few real communities out there where people fit... where I will fit?
Anyway, now you know how I got to this point. I'm unsure where to go from here. Do i check out churches even though my hearts not really in it? If so, where do I start? Or do I continue being a churchless Christian for the time being?
*Please note, my blog wont look like this forever... I know its ugly :) Also, if you read this, I hope you watch for my next post, which may or may not be entitled 'I was happier before I went to Bible College'
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